Thank you for your thoughtful insights. Seeker friendly has always made me cringe because of the potential shortcomings you acknowledged. It seems to me it can be a comfortable, dare I say selfish, faith that "I have my ticket to heaven so I'm okay". It is important to share the love of God to those seeking but personally growing up in a church that only taught that God loved me it was years (decades!) before I had any understanding of His holiness and countless other attributes because I was comfortable just where I was. The importance of His love being balanced with a growing knowledge His Word and of who God is, even the hard parts, caused me to grow in my knowledge and love for Him and others. And, worship songs are great but like your example I always have trouble with some lyrics. ("I surrender all..." Do I? I think not!) There is always the potential to "cross the line of faith" and never grow and oh, what we miss out on then even if the journey is hard. "Who can mind the journey when the road leads home?" (Dr. James M. Gray)
Thanks Laura, I agree with all you wrote, In a number of ways the worship style of my own church isn’t a great fit for me. I’ve found, though, that one benefit of worshipping in a place that’s very different from my own preferences, is that it keeps me from becoming too much myself. Not to say the shortcomings aren’t there, but now, they’re more like flaws in loved family members. I’ll be writing more about songs in particular next week and will be curious to hear your thoughts.
I’m enjoying your commentary Jack. It makes me think of difficult verses from Jesus like Matthew 15:26 (Canaanite woman and dog comparison) or John 6:56 (Jesus “eat my flesh” comments). I understand the temptation to “soften” these verses to prevent discouraging an unbeliever or someone new to the faith. I’m not suggesting it’s okay, just tempting.
Thank you! It is tempting. It's sort of like having a friend who's a bit rough around the edges - you sometimes feel compelled to apologize on their behalf because of how they come off, and because you want other people to see them the way you do.
So many good things I could say about your post. I could almost do an "opposing viewpoint" soapbox here at the same time. I 100% agree with what you say and feel like leaving out hell, sin, commitment, adversity, etc. would be a grave error in any church. Some have gone so far as to say it breeds apostacy, somewhat to your point about bringing people in but not keeping them there. I also hear accusations about not going deep enough to bring in and keep people for the financial gain. I'm sure that is the case in some churches, and many if not most churches could perhaps do a better job regardless of the reason.
On the flip side, it gets me is when people say "love" is too focused. I understand the sentiment there, in light of your post, which I again fully agree with. If it is all love and nothing about sin and taking up your cross, HELL, etc. etc. then we've missed preaching the entire bible and it could lead people into a false view of God and salvation. But I also want to remind those folks that have said this that love is the first and second greatest commandment according to Jesus, so we need to be careful about making that sound unimportant. If Jesus said the greatest commandment was not to commit adultery, I wonder if churches would be equally criticized for preaching so much against that sin. My guess is maybe not... perhaps because that is an easier sin to avoid or because it's so glaringly "sinful" to most. But people view love as weak and less significant, when I think to do love may be the hardest thing to do towards God or others. In fact, doesn't the bible say that all of the laws and commandments are summed up in love, meaning if we did it well, most sins against God and others and in general would be somewhat obsolete?
I could go on here, and perhaps getting off topic a bit, but this has been something I've been thinking about if you can't tell. Either way, great post, J-III.
Thanks Art, for a really thoughtful response. I agree and I could write a whole other post about the reverse: Churches who insist on emphasizing the difficult bits. They're a bit like the pharisees who Jesus observed loved to tithe even on their kitchen herbs, but missed the entire point of the Law itself. As a person, I'm not a very neat fit into the seeker-sensitive mold. But one of the reasons I'm happy to be at a church like Seacoast is precisely because it keeps me from becoming too much myself. It helps me focus on those things that I would normally deemphasize. And I think you put it really well - some churches like to criticize those who focus on "love," as though that isn't the most difficult commandment of all.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights. Seeker friendly has always made me cringe because of the potential shortcomings you acknowledged. It seems to me it can be a comfortable, dare I say selfish, faith that "I have my ticket to heaven so I'm okay". It is important to share the love of God to those seeking but personally growing up in a church that only taught that God loved me it was years (decades!) before I had any understanding of His holiness and countless other attributes because I was comfortable just where I was. The importance of His love being balanced with a growing knowledge His Word and of who God is, even the hard parts, caused me to grow in my knowledge and love for Him and others. And, worship songs are great but like your example I always have trouble with some lyrics. ("I surrender all..." Do I? I think not!) There is always the potential to "cross the line of faith" and never grow and oh, what we miss out on then even if the journey is hard. "Who can mind the journey when the road leads home?" (Dr. James M. Gray)
Thanks Laura, I agree with all you wrote, In a number of ways the worship style of my own church isn’t a great fit for me. I’ve found, though, that one benefit of worshipping in a place that’s very different from my own preferences, is that it keeps me from becoming too much myself. Not to say the shortcomings aren’t there, but now, they’re more like flaws in loved family members. I’ll be writing more about songs in particular next week and will be curious to hear your thoughts.
I’m enjoying your commentary Jack. It makes me think of difficult verses from Jesus like Matthew 15:26 (Canaanite woman and dog comparison) or John 6:56 (Jesus “eat my flesh” comments). I understand the temptation to “soften” these verses to prevent discouraging an unbeliever or someone new to the faith. I’m not suggesting it’s okay, just tempting.
Thank you! It is tempting. It's sort of like having a friend who's a bit rough around the edges - you sometimes feel compelled to apologize on their behalf because of how they come off, and because you want other people to see them the way you do.
So many good things I could say about your post. I could almost do an "opposing viewpoint" soapbox here at the same time. I 100% agree with what you say and feel like leaving out hell, sin, commitment, adversity, etc. would be a grave error in any church. Some have gone so far as to say it breeds apostacy, somewhat to your point about bringing people in but not keeping them there. I also hear accusations about not going deep enough to bring in and keep people for the financial gain. I'm sure that is the case in some churches, and many if not most churches could perhaps do a better job regardless of the reason.
On the flip side, it gets me is when people say "love" is too focused. I understand the sentiment there, in light of your post, which I again fully agree with. If it is all love and nothing about sin and taking up your cross, HELL, etc. etc. then we've missed preaching the entire bible and it could lead people into a false view of God and salvation. But I also want to remind those folks that have said this that love is the first and second greatest commandment according to Jesus, so we need to be careful about making that sound unimportant. If Jesus said the greatest commandment was not to commit adultery, I wonder if churches would be equally criticized for preaching so much against that sin. My guess is maybe not... perhaps because that is an easier sin to avoid or because it's so glaringly "sinful" to most. But people view love as weak and less significant, when I think to do love may be the hardest thing to do towards God or others. In fact, doesn't the bible say that all of the laws and commandments are summed up in love, meaning if we did it well, most sins against God and others and in general would be somewhat obsolete?
I could go on here, and perhaps getting off topic a bit, but this has been something I've been thinking about if you can't tell. Either way, great post, J-III.
Thanks Art, for a really thoughtful response. I agree and I could write a whole other post about the reverse: Churches who insist on emphasizing the difficult bits. They're a bit like the pharisees who Jesus observed loved to tithe even on their kitchen herbs, but missed the entire point of the Law itself. As a person, I'm not a very neat fit into the seeker-sensitive mold. But one of the reasons I'm happy to be at a church like Seacoast is precisely because it keeps me from becoming too much myself. It helps me focus on those things that I would normally deemphasize. And I think you put it really well - some churches like to criticize those who focus on "love," as though that isn't the most difficult commandment of all.